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Day 1
Dog owner says...
On the first day of the Dog Talks, I met a lady walking her dog (off leash) with her 3-year-old son. She lives close to Dufferin Grove Park and often comes around in the afternoons. Together the family of three were playing fetch.
She says she believes in leaving dogs off leash in a park. She thought that responsible dog owners should not have to stop their dogs from running free. When the park is busy, owners need to be more careful. She manages this by letting either her dog or son play at any given time, each having their own turn and her full attention.
Furthermore she says that the lack of recent dog incidents indicates that dog owners in general understand responsibility. It proves that Dufferin Grove Park can handle off leash.
She notes that the park dog fountain did not work well until the end of last year and that this was one of the reasons a dog may run in to the wading pool. (when this happens – park staff have to empty out the pool and refill it – a process taking anywhere from an hour to three hours).
She can understand not allowing her dog in the playground or sandbox, since some dogs want to play with very little kids and might pee on the sand or playground equipment. However, making Dufferin Grove Park exclusively leashed, could be a reason for her to move out of the area.
Dog owner says...
The next dog owners I spoke to were hanging out at the soccer field. There was a friendly soccer game being played. Both dogs were on the field at the same time and the owners had unleashed the dogs so they could play together. Both owners felt pretty comfortable leaving their dogs off leash even near to the soccer game - having taught their dogs to stay far enough away and not the chase the ball. One owner said that a younger dog without training may have a harder time resisting the temptation and that the owner should then keep him leashed or take him to another location in the park.
Re: Dogs damaging soccer field by digging
Answer: Dogs do not dig all that much and that a careful owner would stop their dog from doing this.
Re: Leashed area
Answer: Both felt that such an area would be too cramped
Re: Moving to another location in the park - say the middle under the trees
Answer: The area near the big fire pit and the dip near Dufferin are both full of squirrels that their dogs may chase onto Dufferin Street.
Both agreed that setting times would be a good thing - for example - off leash times would be between 5am - 8:30am. And then again after 9pm, when the sun goes down and the number of people at the park thin out.
Day 2
Non-Dog Owner says...
No problem with off leash dogs in the park as long as owners are responsible.
Day 3
Dog Owner says...
A mother with a child in the sandpit says she has no problem with off leash dogs but notes that some children are simply scared of dogs and may not be able to relax if they are playing close to one. She feels that emphasis should be put on the 'poop & scoop' policy around the park.
Non-Dog Owner...
A father with a child in the playground has concerns over off leashed dogs but notes that there should be a system of calling or alerting the community if an issue did come up. He suggests having small post box with a note dropping system for us to keep updated with suggestions.
Former Dog Owners
The two moms in the playground felt that there was big issue with having dogs off leash in a park. Their own experiences showed them that it was quite hard to leave dogs leashed outside of the playground. Some dogs are very emotional and always need to be around people. They ended up having to take their dog inside. Regarding the fencing off of an area strictly for off leash dogs, one mother suggested a "DOG RUN", similar to the one that they have in Ashbridges Bay park near the Beaches. This "dog run" was made up of snow fencing arranged to form vertical rows for the dogs to run up and down. Space at Dufferin is an issue since Dufferin Grove Park is not a big park - but she suggested between the public washrooms and the Gladstone path running through the park. The idea is that the introduction of a designated area would allow for a culture of respect between both dog owners and non dog owners.
The other mother felt that the snow fencing could be adapted to something nicer like fence railing (similar to what fences in the playground). The other alternative is dedicating the soccer field area during the day when it is not used. Alternatively - timing may work as a way of designating off leash times - suggested times: Before 8:30 and after Dusk.
Day 4
Dog Owner says...
On the fourth day I met a couple of people in the park, walking their leashed dog between the playground and the soccer field. They had no problem with leashed dogs in the park. However, they said that they would not unleash their own dog because it was still too young and scared to be allowed to run free. They worried that their dog may run away or not know how to defend itself against other bigger and stronger dogs. In actual fact, most of the time we were talking to them, their puppy was shaking with its tail between its legs, just because we were strangers standing a little too close. So, in general - their only concern would be about the safety of their own dog - with regards to the dogs in parks strategy.
Dog owner says...
I spoke to two people on the soccer field (a hang out for many dog owners) - both had their dogs un leashed. Both owners were quite comfortable leaving their dogs unleashed - saying they never had any problems with other dogs being too aggressive with theirs. Hardly any one ever complained to them about their dogs being off leash.
When asked about the fencing idea, the two clearly split opinions
-The older lady said she would agree if that was the only option
-The younger fellow said he did not like the idea of having a fenced in area for dogs. He also did not like the idea of designated off leash times (before 8:0am and after dusk) because his dog and he have their own schedule - for example, they take a walk after dinner.
- An interesting topic that came up was about By-Law officers - what their power was and what we were obligated to do for them. The man I was talking to said he never felt he had to answer to a by-law officer. He felt he could simply tell them he had no identification and could not be forced into providing his name or address to a by-law officer.
Dog Owner says...
I spoke to another lady right after who was walking her small-leashed dog on the soccer field. She said that leashing was just fine with her. She had to anyway, for the protection of her own dog. He was still in training and she did not trust it not to run away. That was how she supervised her dog. She felt that if people don't do so, then you can have problems like at Dewson school where dogs are off leash but the owners are not following up and cleaning up after their animals: the area is full of poo! With regards to off leash in general - she felt that responsible dog owners will naturally leash their dogs as the weather gets nicer and the park gets busier - as a courtesy to other park users.
Dog Owner says...
A couple sitting a bench near the soccer field seemed to have between 3-4 unleashed dogs running between them. All three were small to medium sized dogs, which, the couple said worked better for them. They previously had owned a big dog and felt it was too difficult to maintain. For one thing, the poop and scoop task becomes quite the job they said. Also, experience has shown them that there is more reason for people to get upset about having a large dog off leash.
They were comfortable about having early morning and late evenings as off leash designated times (around 5am and after 9pm worked best for them). They also felt that the New York experiment of having a fenced in area for dogs off leash would only add stress and the number of confrontations between, say, a larger dog and a smaller dog, crammed into one area.
Dog Owner says...
A man and his son, together with medium sized dog, were also walking through the soccer field around 6pm. They normally don't come to Dufferin Grove and prefer to hang out at Trinity Bellwoods. Bellwoods has a natural off leash designated area - it’s called the peanut and is the dip in the middle of Bellwoods park. The man feels that having a small off leash area would only mean that all the grass would be torn up. And having a dusty area would be no good either. At Bellwoods owners of big dogs are able to feel comfortable letting them run in the peanut and smaller dogs can run free around the edge. It’s considered the dog park for most owners in the area. Dufferin Grove is not as large - so it would be harder to find an area to designate as 'off leash'. He stressed the importance of owners picking up after their dogs.
Dog Owner says...
A lady with a large looking dog was walking her leashed dog just at the hillside facing Dufferin Street. She felt that a fenced in area would not be a good thing. For one thing, it would be smelly. Also, Dufferin Grove does not have the space to host such a thing. She was comfortable with designated off leash times - before and after 9. She also said that she was sensitive to when the park was busy and would not leave her dog off leash.
Directly from a Dog Owner:
"...further to your question around dogs being unleashed, I would suggest a specific off leash time for the summer (April – Oct.) - from 8pm to 8am. Simple and sweet. During the winter months, I would suggest off leash throughout as the park is rather empty."
Day 5
I spoke with eight people about dogs and formatted the information more like a survey. There were a number of good ideas expressed, suggestions for improvements specifically for Dufferin Grove:
- Putting out green boxes around park for dog poo (that way there would be less poo on the sidewalks
*Using bushes to section of area of off leash dogs (instead of fences)
*Keeping dogs out of the sand pit is important
*Having a place in the park for extra bags to pick up poo
One woman from Montreal with a fairly big dog off leash said that Toronto was better than Montreal regarding dog in park rules and much easier for dog walkers. Cleaner sidewalks and even the popular parks for dog owners like High Park are not as busy as Mont Royal park in Montreal.
A couple who were picnicking with their children and dog (off leash) pointed out that dogs in parks are good - more people come to the park and that keeps everyone safer. However, echoing a familiar tune, they talked about the importance of responsibility among dog owners saying that people should be attentive to their dogs and others should be aware when dogs are around.
A woman with a small, tiny little dog with a new haircut spoke about supervision of dogs from the formal side saying that park employees (like me) should supervise dogs and dog walkers more, especially in the popular dog parks like High Park. Furthermore she felt that dog leash rules are under-enforced and often unknown to dog owners. More enforcement please! She said.
Out of the eight people all agreed that no dogs in the playground is a reasonable request.
More freedom...
Most people, six out of eight, wanted more freedom with their dogs: more off leash time or more off leash areas. But the question of whether off leash times or off leash areas would solve the problem was mixed.
Off Leash Times...
The response to designated off leash times was mixed, split between those who felt that off leash times like 9pm-8am would help or would be impossible for them to follow. Those who disagreed with designated times felt that their freedom would be impinged upon and that they would not be able to adjust to such a regime. Strong feelings.
Off Leash Areas (fencing)...
Fencing in is of course another solution to a lack off leash times/space for dogs, and the prospect of fencing in a dog off leash area also revealed an even split between those who agreed and those who disagreed. Those who disagreed felt that Dufferin was too small and there was no area well suited. The soccer field needs to be free of poo and holes, the gully south of the big bake oven felt too small and full of foot traffic and the area in the south/west end of the park was thought to be too close to the risks of Dufferin street. Others felt that a fenced in option would solve the time restrictions issue on dog walking and increase options for dog walkers.